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???
12/02/12 17:15
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#188948 - Have you any basis for that rate?
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Kai,

I haven't run into much information about the MCU behavior during rise/fall time of Vcc. While I agree that there are many things going on during rise and fall of Vcc, there should, in fact, be nothing externally observable happening during Vcc rise and fall if RESET is asserted, aside from oscillator startup during Vcc rise. Nevertheless, I've observed external signals, as mentioned previously, during the decay of Vcc to levels below the specified minimum after external power is cut off. As I've never completed my investigation into this matter, I'm still persuaded that something needs to be done to inhibit internal processes during active RESET.

From what I've observed, there are two critical timespans, one during power-up, which is less critical, and one during Vcc decay during shutdown, when internal processes, including the flash-write supervoltage charge pump, may still be running.

All these problems are addressable, albeit not so inexpensively. I suspect that they may be manageable with a small CPLD, which probably won't cost more than the larger supervisors, but certainly will impact cost more than the 3-terminal types, particularly in a system with a small, low-cost MCU.

One of these days, soon, I hope, I'll get back to this matter. I've never set up a complete test environment for it, and just the setup will take a couple of weeks, I suppose. Design of the mechanism to control the respective timing of RESET and Vcc rise and fall will take considerable time and effort. Presently, I'm persuaded that a very short rise-time, but one long enough to allow reliable oscillator startup is essential, and that a very short cutoff of Vcc, down to very nearly 0 Volts, is essential to stop the processes that, under presently common circumstances, continue while Vcc is decaying, where supervisors do little other than to assert RESET once Vcc is below tolerable levels, is what is needed.

If you can provide a link to a datasheet or other document that specifies details of Vcc rise and fall, I would be very grateful.

RE

List of 33 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
C8051F231 experiences            01/01/70 00:00      
   another solution            01/01/70 00:00      
   The probabilities are low...            01/01/70 00:00      
      think about what happens when you add a finger            01/01/70 00:00      
         The point is ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Yes ... the underlying issue is the flash ...             01/01/70 00:00      
               Out of my office, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Don't think in Vcc, ESD or hum...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Apparently several C8051F2xx parts have the same pinout            01/01/70 00:00      
   Characteristic for in system programmable flash micros...            01/01/70 00:00      
      All too true ... sadly ...             01/01/70 00:00      
         Power-on slope rate...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Sorry, my post should be here, no up there...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Have you any basis for that rate?            01/01/70 00:00      
               Vdd ramp time            01/01/70 00:00      
               Some datasheets show numbers...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Those aren't the "usual" 805x-core MCU's            01/01/70 00:00      
                     There aren't many "usual" 8051-cores anymore...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        How dangerous power ups can be...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I believe it            01/01/70 00:00      
                              (dV/dt) examples            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 They don't know it either...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    dV/dT etc             01/01/70 00:00      
                                       reset request...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          That's what disturbs me greatly            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             It IS disturbing!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Where this began ... at least for me ...             01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   So, you took the hard road...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      We've all had that experience             01/01/70 00:00      
   probable cause            01/01/70 00:00      
      Brent, this is very nice            01/01/70 00:00      
         forum no longer down            01/01/70 00:00      
      Thank you!            01/01/70 00:00      

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