Excellent reply. I don't like the Karma system, but appreciate it probably cures some of the ills of the previous arrangement. I never score anyone, and have never looked at my own (if indeed I have one - and I DON'T want to know). If I don't like a post or a topic, I simply ignore it. I certainly don't want anyone censoring a thread unless it becomes stupid, and I thing Craig and Steve have got it absolutely right as it is. Long live OT!

One thing I'm sure of - neither Mike nor Alberto left purely as a result of the final spat. Human beings don't do that. There's got to be a build up of other issues and this was a final straw.

I can imagine Michael casting off the 'responsibility' of the forum like losing a millstone. He's obviously someone who can't just sit by and let people make mistakes and learn from them - he has to take them by the hand and lead them through the wilderness. He did this so very well, I feared for his continued livelyhood (as I do for other prolific helpers on this forum). I suspect he realised this too, but rather than stepping back, he needed to break with it completely - and needed an excuse (perhaps just to himself) to do so.

Michael; if you read this and I've got it completely wrong; forgive me.

Dave